The Immigrant's Experience with Dr. Salvatore Forcina

Kyle Farmer sits down this week with esteemed surgeon, Italian/Argentinian immigrant, and author of The American Doctor Dr. Salvatore Forcina. They talk about the immigrant's experience to America and how failure is not an option.

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Produced & Edited By: Drew Tattam

Transcript

Now we're cooking. Now we are cooking. Cool. All right, well, I'm gonna read this little intro part and then we can just go ahead and get started. I'm excited to talk to you.

Sure. Perfect.

Welcome back to the Immigration Guy. Today we're sitting down with Dr. Forcina. Uh, his early years were spent poverty stricken and without any proper shelter. Like many Italians at the time, his parents followed a proper migration to Argentina, which is a stable country, and offered rich natural resources and the chance for more stable life.

Shortly after arriving in Argentina, he was sent away to live with an order of priests for seven years as they offered the only available avenue for education. The one thing that kept him going during this lonely time was his dream of studying medicine and live a life whose focus was on helping other people.

His determination eventually compelled him to enter graduate school for medical school, immigrates to America, and become the chief of surgery at two major hospitals. Welcome and thank you for joining us. Is there anything that I missed that you would wanna share with people?

No, you did a good job there. But there is a lot of, a lot of things in my book.

Yeah. That's really cool. So, you're the, I mean, it, it's, that's amazing to me that you went through so much immigration. Cuz you went… So you went from Italy to Argentina. From Argentina to the United States.

But you see, uh, there was, um, after the war, um, I was born in Scauri. It’s in between Roman Napal, close to Monte Cassino. Monte Cassino is the, the place where the famous battle was, the, uh, was and uh, the German were in the high position there and prevented for the allies to advance for almost six, eight months, whatever.

And they were a lot of casualties. After the, in 1947, my father, he was a worker, uh, the factory, the ceramic coal. We moved to Argentina to open a new factory there. Uh, and yeah. So, they were in Italy at that time in that area, where my parents lived. There was very, everything was destroyed. There was no work, there were no jobs, there were nothing.

So, they decide to go. My father at the end of the war, really at that time, South America, Argentina, in 1940. And he had a contract for two years to, to work there, and he, he didn't, uh, felt comfortable ever. He had a, he could re-- uh, return to Italy. So that's when, in 1948, my, my father call us, my mother, my brother and me to move to Argentina. And we moved to Argentina. I was a very difficult time. They were, um, is not the immigration that you have today, uh, at that time being Argentina immigrant, you were at the bottom of the scale.

Yeah.

Yeah, so there were a lot of things we had to go through and, um, and that's what happened. So eventually I, you know, I study in Argentina.

And I didn't want to study. My father was all the time. Because he was a worker and he went to the second and third grade only, but he read all his life and so he wants to motivate me to study. And then, but I, I, I was eight, 10 years old. I didn't want to study. I mean, you know, I want to be on the street with the other kids.

We, we used to make a, with a sock. We used to put the cloth inside there and we make a, a ball, soccer ball, and we used to kick the soccer ball in the middle of the street. There was no asphalt, there was a lot of dust. And uh, and we kick the ball until the ball instead round become like a sausage.

It wasn't so much of a ball. It was more like a...

That's, that's the poverty that we were doing. So anyhow, so what happened was then I didn't want to study, and my father was going crazy, and it so happened that very close to our house there was a church. And one day a missionary priest came there, and I was, I guess fooling around, going around. I was a kid.

I start to talk to one of the priests. One of the priests start to show me, some pictures of the school in Buenos Aires where they have a horse. The kids who were playing soccer, they were having different games. And I saw, I went to my father, I, I said I would like to go to this place. So, my father, of course, saw the opportunity. Maybe, perhaps I start to learn something in life.

Uh, so what happened was that, so I went to the school. I spent seven years in the school. They were a, uh, a priest, German priest. And there was a lot of discipline there. A lot of discipline. It was very hard, of course. And the, the first year I did terrible because I didn't want to study. Uh, but gradually, gradually I saw the example of the other students. They were studying. And, and I got, more than one time, I got in trouble because, you know, I was a little wild. Uh, yeah. And so that's what happened. So, by little, by little I start to study, I start to learn. And what happened was, I remember my father.

When he was young, uh, the town was very poor.

And they say that they, they didn't very radio, they didn’t have TV. Of course, they didn't have telephone. They didn't have nothing. So, the main attraction was once a year or twice a year, uh, the, the priest in that day with a small square brought some, uh, brought some musicians and, uh, a few musicians and they play what was popular at that time.

Some serias from the operas or, uh, pieces that the people enjoy, and my father used to talk to me about that. And I was being a small, you know, I didn't know what it was, a violin or trumpet or whatever. OK? So, he used to talk to me, and by the time I had the desire for, for, for the, to learn about that. And so it happened, the school, when, when I went there, the, there was an orchestra. The student has an orchestra and I, in order to play an instrument to learn an instrument, you had to apply. And, uh, so I did that. And of course, because my grade was so poor, I was rejected. So that was, uh, that was str--, the kick, the, the comeback, no, whatever. Yeah. So, what happened was that the, the following year, the final year, just the opposite, I start to apply myself and of course I started to play the instrument, a violin. 

And I really love that. I love that. So that's the way I started to study. So, what happened also was that then, uh, I was there for seven years, and it was very difficult time. I went there since I was 11 years old. Was a boarding school. School boarding school. I saw my parents once a year. So, the separation anxiety of those years, the first few years plus the discipline, extreme discipline was something that left the mark on me. They left it, yeah, they left the mark on me. Um, so they made me timid, introverted, uh, shy. So, they really affect my personality. and, uh, I was, uh, kids like I, uh, say before I was wild, but suddenly all that disappeared. And so, I, I I, they formed of my character that they, they installed discipline. 

For instance, they used to tell us, you have an appointment about eight o'clock. If you arrive at eight o'clock, you are late. You have to be there a quarter to eight. That was the mentality. Yeah. So, and that's have been a, in my life, through my life, all that. And so that's why also I became very methodic, very strict, very. So that's why I eventually became a surgeon. Because surgeon, you have to make a decision, the right decision at that moment.

Three o'clock in the morning, whatever is the time is you cannot just come back and the next day, you know, and take care of the problem. You have to. So, so anyhow, so that's the…

That, that's really interesting. You, uh, I, I'd love to hear your, your background and kind of what life was like in Argentina. And, you know, one question I'd have for you is, whenever you were going through that, uh, which it sounds, you know, sounds difficult, but were you happy?

Well, I have up and down. What happened is that first of all, psychologically. I felt myself inferior because like I say, before you go to another land. Yeah.

The, they mock, the other kids, they mock you, you don't speak the language, you speak with an accent. And, uh, and, uh, you know, it's a, was very difficult situation.

And also, my father had been in war during the war. Psychologically also, uh, he, he wants to be as far away for need to leave another world. Psychologically, he was affected too. So, there was a lot of, um, a lot of things that there. So, but what happened in some way, that's why he worked so hard for me to become somebody because he couldn't, he didn't have a chance.

His, his desire was there, but he couldn't accomplish anything because it was like a swimming against the stream.

Yeah.

That's why, so that's why he was frustrated with me. But at that age, you know, you are young kids. I mean, you know, you want to, like I said, you want to play in the street.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You want to, you want to just play in the streets and keep at it.

You don't think about the future, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting to me because, you know, I, I read this statistic yesterday, uh, it was a CDC conducted survey and they found that 3 in 10 teenage girls had seriously contemplated suicide in the last two years.

Yeah.

To me that is like that, that's crazy. I mean, that is so sad. And it made me reflect on it, and it made me reflect on, okay, well why are they unhappy? Like, what is making people unhappy? What… And I think what it is, is that people have become more and more accustomed to relying on, on things to make them happy.

And that's not how it works. You're not, you're not gonna be happy cause you have that, that new phone, you're not gonna be happy because you have that, that it's not a thing.

Yeah. That's the temporary thing. I think for me… First of all, I was a lucky person because I have my parents.

Yeah. Right.

Father and mother. And for me, I saw the, how they had to struggle to life.

Yeah.

And because they were in Argentina for 30 years and whatever they did accomplish in 30 years, when the revolution came and inflation came overnight almost, they lost everything.

Yep.

So that was, uh, for somebody that left their family, left their route. They go to another place where they, they don't have friends, they don't have, they don't know nobody, and they start all over again.

Mm-hmm.

It was very sad. Was very sad. So, I think, like I say, I was lucky I had my parents. Although I will tell you, I was…Since 11 years old, I was far away from my parents. I saw them once a year, but still that distance and whatever I saw and I, I mature, I learned the responsibility. I felt, I felt guilty. My parents never, my father never came to university to check on me if I was study, I was how I was doing, never. They trust me and I felt guilty because what happened, I, I, I felt responsible because what happened is that they, I saw their life.

Yeah.

They, it goes one step back, uh, four.And one step backward because they depend on the so many circumstances. So that make me very, very, uh, res-- responsible, and, and I don't want to, uh, disappoint them,

Yeah, so. I do think that it sounds to me like three things that you had that peop-- young people today really lack are: You had responsibility. I think a lot of young people lack responsibility and as humans we need responsibility. I think you had, I think you had discipline, which I think a lot of young people just don't have discipline because they don't have responsibility.

You learn discipline, discipline through responsibility. And because of your struggle, it sounds to me like you really, uh, you had really great perspective. Like you were, you were, you, you, you didn't say like, okay, I need that thing to be happy. You had, you had perspective and it allows you to keep going.

But one thing that I think that I don't know if you even realize about yourself, uh, but is definitely apparent to me and something that I really want for my kids, cuz I think this is somewhere where I fell short, particularly in my school years. Uh, at, at least through high school, I, I ended up doing well in college and in law school. But, uh, through high school, I, I think that one thing that young, young people lack nowadays, courage. 

And you had to have courage to, to fail because, so like for, from your perspective, you went to school. You were not performing well and what you did to start performing well was you put an effort. But I think what a lot of young people feel today, and as I was growing up, is they, they, they lack the courage to do that because they understand they can fail.

And if you face a likelihood of failure, it takes courage to do that. Of course, that's what yields success as well. Uh, and so you, it's something that you definitely have to overcome, but I I I love that it sounds like you, uh, you had courage in spades.

Yeah, I agree with that. And, uh, I will add that the motivation.

Yeah.

I had a, because my life I was like in a hole.

Yep.

I will keep looking up, but I couldn't see the sun.

Yeah.

And so, I want to get out of the hole. I want to breathe. So just to give an idea. So, when I was in Argentina, my parents, the books over there, they were very expensive.

So, I didn't have books. And I remember we had a, we were renting an old house and they were different rooms, like six, seven rooms, whatever. And we were students sharing a room two at a time. And so, I remember my friends, they were students who… I was the son of the immigrant, but “immigrant” immigrant, you know what I mean? So, they were from well-off families because the parents were doctors, lawyers, estancieros… People that have a lot of land with cows and sheep. So, I didn't have nothing of that. So, what happened? Those friends of mine, uh, they on Friday afternoon came and because they have resource and money, this, and that, they used to go for La Plata, where I study, to Buenos Air.

And so, they have good times when the weekend there and they used to come, uh, back maybe one, two o'clock in the morning and slept all day. So that was the time when I borrowed their books.

I love it.

When I, and when, well, what are you going to do? I mean, you know, like I say, you want to get out of the hole. You will do anything to, to grab anything, to lift yourself up. I mean, you know, and so, so I, I, what I think what happened was that I have an internal, an inside motivation, the desire. Of course, I was not convinced that was going to go to no place because the odds were against me.

Yeah, they were.

And the worst thing, the worst thing. You see what happened. This is what I want to tell the young kids today. In this country, United States, for instance. Huh? I never have a guidance. I never had. My life had been like going through a tunnel. Because at the end of the tunnel, I saw a dim light there. And I, as I advance to reach the light because of no guidance, I read the sign and it says “dead end.” So, what I had to do, I had to come back and start all over again. And that have been my life. So, the, uh, I have a bad moment too. Listen, I have my good day, I have my bad day. I have many days I want to quit because the chance of everything was against me. And so even when I came to United States, see what happened was I graduated in, in, in, in Argentina, and I was supposed to go to Italy to specialize. So, I arrived there March 1st. I had sent all my document to University of Napal, and I was supposed to take 304 exams. But they, when I arrived to the university, they told me I had to wait until September, the new schooler, schooler year.

Yeah.

Meantime, while in Scauri, where my parents used to live, there was a nice beach there and summer resort and a lot of people, foreign visitors came there. And so, while I was there during the summer, I know I was not in the best mood you have can imagine, because I was in limbo. I was in limbo. I didn't know, you know what, what is the purpose for me? I mean, I went through all this, um, what, what, what? I don't see a light. I didn't see. 

So, somebody, uh, distant relative of mine says, “You should come to United States. What are you, uh, wasting time here and this and that?” So, I have family here. I got in touch with the family. They convince me to come to visit. Of course, I came to visit, and I love what… I saw the opportunity. I saw the opportunity that they, I, I didn’t have in another place. And so, the only difference, this I never, I didn't speak a word of English.

Just, just Italian and Spanish at that point.

Yes. Yes. And so, what happened? And uh, and my title was not recognized in this country.

Really?

No. I had to start from scratch again. So, what happened? Yes. But you laugh about, but I cried.

Oh, you were, you were not happy about at the time.

I cry. So, what happened was that the, first of all, you had to take an exam, it's called edu--, uh, ECFMG, Educational Council for Foreign Medical Graduate.

This is an exam given once or twice a year for the foreign graduate and the American graduate outside United States. So, when you pass… It was no easy for me that exam because you see what happened? I, I was 28 years. And I didn't know what multiple choice was.

And you what? Sorry.

I, I didn't know what multiple choices was.

You didn't, you never, you never had a multiple-choice test?

No, because I was, used the oral exams.

Did you, did you speak English at this point?

No…

So, were you taking the test in English?

Yeah. Had to be in English. Your course, so, so, so, but I was…

You took a multiple-choice test in English? Never hardly spoken in English.

I was 28 years old. Okay?

Yeah.

So what happened, I had to take the, go to New York University. I borrowed money for my, um, aunt and uncle’s family, and I went to university to take courses. But you see what happened, the adjustment, the, the way to under to understand those, uh, question the, I didn't know that when I went to take the first exam and they told me that the answer was there, I couldn't understand how it can be the answer there.

Right. You see, just to give an idea how naive I was, because I was for the, the way that was brought up. Um, there is, uh, uh, there is one way memorize everything when I study.

Yeah.

So no, recently nothing. As a matter of fact, I don't want to change the subject, but I got in trouble for asking question when I was a teenager.

Almost got expelled. And the priest told me that, uh, if I don't behave, it's going to be expelled because, um, what I'm going to do. Because he knew about my parents. They were…

Yeah. Right.

… Simple workers. Okay? So, the priest, the main, the, the superior told me if they expelled me, what I'm going to do? I'm, I was not an intelligent person. And you know what? At that time, I didn't understand the meaning. I mean, but eventually as I grow up, it hurt you.

Yeah.

It hurt you because, uh, you know, I, I, I need somebody to support somebody to tell me get up…

Yeah.

… Not to somebody to put me down, because already I'm down.

Yeah. You didn't need help getting down. You need help getting up. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But, but that's life. But, but you see what happened. I learned from my father, he was a simple man, you had to have motivation. You had to have a desire. You had to be hungry.

yeah, yeah.

You have to be hungry.

You're, that's exactly right.

Yes. Because otherwise, listen, you know, you want the accomplish somebody. That's the beauty. This is what I loved about this country, is that here everything is possible. Nobody is going to put the red carpet for you to walk.

That's right.

You have to work hard and it's going to take time. Let me tell you, when I came to this country and I was staying with my uncle and aunt in the Bronx–Pelham Parkway, I was so depressed, so down because, uh, I didn't have nobody with whom to talk to.

I had a family. We could talk about, uh, meals and this and that. But my profession… See here we are again. I am like a small boat, in the middle of the ocean without able to see the, the coast or whatever. So which direction were right, left, you know, that was my life. So, what happened one day, I find out that the, there was a hospital, Albert Einstein Hospital.

I went to talk to an Argentina doctor; I think he was a radiologist. And, uh, we spoke Spanish. And he told me, he said, well, listen, you are in the perfect place. However, this is going to be very hard. It is going to take you at least 10 years. Years before you start your practice. And you know what? He was right, because what happened, uh, uh, you had to pass the… Learn English, you had to pass the exam and right away, you know, take several months to, to get the results and then, and eventually had to apply for resident program.

Spend five years of training. When you finish that, already you're a certain age and nobody know you.

I know.

You had to, so you had to start from the battle again. Assisting, being around when somebody else is not available, you, so you fill this spot or whatever. So, listen, nothing is easy in life…

Yeah. Yeah.

… But you have to have faith.

You want to climb the mountain. You, you don't have the right shoes, right gloves. You will scrape yourself. If you had the, the desire you are going to reach them. I don't know when, but you can reach them and that's the problem. That's the problem. We want everything now or, or we want everything yesterday.

That's right. And it takes, takes discipline to get their commitment and, and drive.

Sure. Sure.

So, tell us, tell us about your book, The American Doctor. Right?

Well, yes, The American Doctor. What happened was that the, when I, we were young and we, when, when my wife, we were invited different parties and meet different people, this and that. And like I say, like I'm com--, having a conversation with you. You’ll say, “Where do you come from? You have an accent, this and that.”

“Oh, I'm Italian.” They say, “Oh, I know Italy with my husband. We go to…” And so, and then you know little bit about me. They say, “What do you do? “Oh, I'm a surgeon.” They say, “Oh, how?” How they say, I see people start to talk how. I mean, you still speak with an accent. You become a surgeon and this and that, and up being chief of surgeon to hospital or whatever.

So, all that, you know. So what happens, when people start to hear about my life, how I accomplished that, they say, “You know what? This is a beautiful thing. You should write about this. You should write.” And to me, you know, it's not my field or whatever. Okay. To me it was, uh, you know, when it has something is in front of your eye and you don't see it, you have to get, you have to back up, back up to, to, to have an idea, perspective, whatever the--. I didn't know. I didn't, so, and they keep in more than one occasion they told me that. So eventually what happened was that when my daughter has a, I end up with a granddaughter, Lenon, she said it is going to be eight years old in, in May. I was thinking, you know, I'm not going to be around, I'm, I will be 82 in April. I say, you know, I want to leave some memory, something to my granddaughter because perhaps maybe when they are a teenager and they in bad mood or something happened, whatever, maybe one day she picks her up this book, I open up a page and say, and you know, the struggle that I went through, and I accomplished something.

that's right.

So, what happened?

If I started with nothing, I accomplished something for her. No matter what she's going through, she better off than me because you see what happened. My life starts in the basement, her life can start on the 15th floor.

Yeah, that's correct.

You know, it's a completely different thing. So that's the reason why I start to write and I, I start to write the thing self, you know, it's like, is something, the statue, they have been covered. I don't have an answer for that. Is there something else I can help with. The, the statue. The statue that the have been covered for hundreds of years. And you don't see the shape had to be polished. Well, that's where that's on the web. 

No.

That happens to me all the time. Sometimes I'm talking and my watch picks it up and my watch starts telling me. I'm like…

yeah, yeah. That, that's what happened. My, my wife, I just removed that.

It happens to me all the time. It happened to me yesterday while I was on a, I was on a, I was on a call with a client.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that.

Oh, no worries.

So anyhow, so that's, that's the, that's, that's have been my life, you know, the reason I wrote the book. And eventually, uh, my daughter was going, oh, I said that this is beautiful. I mean, And I, it's a true story. I, it is come from my heart.

Yeah.

My relationship with my parents, the relationship with the, my patients, the up and down, uh, you know, it's, uh, I think is very, very motivated thing.

Yeah. I, I, I look forward to reading it. I, uh, it, I, I love hearing your, your progression and especially being in immigration. It's always such a beautiful thing. It, it's, it's funny to me because I think a lot of people get the per perception that Americans are the ones that really don't like America. And it, it lacks so much perspective because what we have here is so unique and it, and it, I think that the thing is, is people, they, they don't understand that, yes, this is the land of opportunity.

You can't argue this is not the land of opportunity. It is, it does just require exactly what you said it requires patience. It requires hard work. It requires motivation and it requires courage. And I, one thing that I've noticed about you that is, that is, that's so cool. And I think that if you look at people that are successful, this is, this is not uncommon it because it's what keeps you going forward is you were always looking forward.

You, you, you were never standing down looking at your feet. You weren't looking back to feel sorry for yourself from where you came. You were looking forward and all that stuff was just motivation to get you to keep going. I love that. I love it.

Yes, yes. But I don't have any choice. See, I want to, like I say, I want to get out of that hole. I had to keep, I had to keep, uh, listen, if I cry, I, I fall down and cry. It's like a child, a chance to learn to walk. The child, the first steps is going to fall down and cry. But he had to grab and do another two steps, fall down again, cry, and eventually do 10 step and eventually keep running.

And that's life. That's life.

That's right. And, and your, your perspective is perfect. You, you just said, I had no choice. And I think the way a lot of people feel right now is they think, I can't do it. I have no choice. I'm stuck here. And that's exactly wrong.

Yeah, that's the easy way because, you know, requires sacrifice, you know, requires sacrifice. I mean, uh, uh, you know, to me, what through my life, my experience, I was in practice for more than 40 years. So, I saw everything I saw, everything I saw, uh, lives, you know, uh, I, I have many cases I can, just to give an idea.

Yeah.

Um, I remember very early in my practice there was a graduation day and there were two couples that went to New York. They came back, they said Northern New Jersey. They came back and was raining like hell and flood. So, for some reason, they mix the exit and end up crashing the car against the, uh, lamp post or wall, whatever. The couple in the back instantly DOA. They die right away. The, the girl in the passenger front seat, she came to the emergency room, she had multiple fracture, the pelvis bone, and she was examined in the emergency. The boy driving the car, he was in coma. We don't have to do any surgery. He was in coma, and I remember this case and I admire the, the, the father, what I'm going to tell you. So, what happened? He was in coma; he was in respirator. And this when went home for several weeks and I remember every day they used to go there to visit, make the round visit. To see the progress. Review the lab work, whatever. Again, the father was there all the time, and so I encouraged him the best you can I could, whatever. Okay. I didn't see any progress at all. Father, father was constant, was there all the time. And so, I say, but you know, we had to hope, pray, whatever.

Right.

So, one day I went, I went to see the, this boy. And he was happy. He said, doctor, you know what? Yesterday I saw his finger doing this. I examined him, whatever. Again, I didn't see anything. I went to the nurses taking care of him. I said, listen, have you seen it? No. Nothing. You know what? The father was right. That child, boy woke up. Was extubated and eventually went to college.

That's, that's incredible.

The only problem he had a little bit with a speech impairment, whatever, something that I didn't see that because the nurse told me that when he came back to, uh, thank the nurse for the service they had. So, you see life, life is so beautiful and so friable.

That's right.

So that's why you have to take advantage, the opportunity you have because maybe you had the opportunity today, but tomorrow maybe don't.

That's right.

And, and for the young person that is in the right country, people had to live their country for different reason, to look for a better future for their children. Okay. They leave the family; they leave their friends. They don't speak the language. There, they, they go to an uncertain world. They dunno what's going to happen.

There is no guarantee you come to America and you're going to succeed too. You know? And the separation from the family is a, and those people are willing to come across the ocean and start from scratch, from nothing. And so, the people that here in this country, the youth, they have everything. Listen, when I was in university in La Plata, we had to look the specimen of the histology with the microscope over there because of the, they were, I think they were maybe one microscope for every 10 students. Here in this country,you have your own microscope.

Yeah, that's right. Uh, yeah, you have it, it, it is really interesting, and I think that you can kind of see it, uh, the kind of the, the core theme here is like, you can't be afraid to fail. You can't be paralyzed from achieving things because you're afraid to fail. And I, but I do think that that's why immigrants tend to be extremely successful in the United States is because the way they see it. The basement, the floor is now higher than their ceiling used to be.

Yes.

So, they fail and fail and fail. It doesn't matter to them cuz they're at least better off than they were. And then they end up being super successful cause they had the courage to fail.

Yeah. Because when, when you fail that create some sort of strength on you because you get up, rein-- reinforce your body. It is, uh, like an exercise. You are lifting up weight. You build up the, the strength.

Yes, that's right. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

Well, I, I really appreciate you taking the time to, to talk to us. What's a, what's a good way for our listeners to connect with you?

Yeah. First of all, they can follow me in Instagram. That is Salvatore Forcina MD.

Forcina? Is that F-O-R-C-I-N-A MD?

Yeah, the American. The book is, The American Doctor, is going to be released on March 14th, and the, that can be pre-ordered in Amazon.

Awesome. I'll be pre-ordering it.

Good. And, uh, uh, I, I hope you, you call me, get in touch with me to, to express, to, to let me know how you feel about it because, uh, like I say, you know, I'm a very emotional person. That's why like the classy opera and this and that because the feeling, the, the emotion and, um, I have. Like I said before, I, I have been away from my parents for a long time, but I was close to them and my mother. When I used to go to visit them in Italy, because after 30 years they, they moved to Italy, they lost everything in Argentina, like I say before they start all over again. And so, I, my, the emotional moment I have with my mother and the, you know, the, I got very emotional. I more than one occasion I had to stop writing and come back another day because, uh, there were a lot of open wounds. You know, it's not just, uh, everything is not rosy.

Everything is not rosy. Don't look at me with the success I have now. You have to see how I reach, how I climb, climbed the mountain with our equipment…

That's right. Yeah. Yeah,

… How I cross the desert without water.

That's right. I love it and it.

Like a, like you have a, a new Ferrari without gasoline. What point, what is the point?

You're right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I love it. Well, I hope you'd be willing to come back, uh, after I read it, I'd love to talk to you.

Sure. I will be glad anytime, anytime. Get in touch. Anytime. I, I'm retired now. Have time. As a matter of fact, now I'm going to do with my bike. I'm going to 25, 20 miles.

You're gonna go ride your bike for 20 miles?

Yes, I do it, it is a no, but it's an electric bike. I use only the, uh, the, the electric bike to go over the bridges or climb, climb you know… But otherwise, you…

You're, you're 82 years old?

I will be 82. Yeah. My father, he died when he was six months to 100 years. He was 99.

He was so close.

listen, listen. He was, uh, 90 years old and he was shopping with a bicycle.

Oh, no way?

Well, that's why, listen, you had to choose your parents with good DNA.

Six months away from a hundred. I love it.

Yeah. And my mother was 95 when she died. Yeah. And they have tough life. They have tough life. Believe me. 

Well that's, that's incredible. But, well, we, we really do appreciate it. Thank you so much for, for coming.

Thank you.

Thank you all for listening to the Immigration Guide Podcast. We really appreciate it. You can find us on our website. Go to www.farmerlawpc.com. You can find me on LinkedIn and Twitter.

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Thank you.