The Immigration Guy

Ag Construction Doesn't Qualify for H-2A Anymore?!

October 05, 2022 Kyle Farmer Season 1 Episode 8
The Immigration Guy
Ag Construction Doesn't Qualify for H-2A Anymore?!
Show Notes Transcript

Kyle talks about impending litigation that could change the H-2A program for Ag Construction employers. Listen for all of the updates! 

We know, the immigration system is messy! It’s complicated and confusing, especially for those looking to gain a visa or hire foreign workers. Farmer Law PC’s Immigration Guy, Kyle Farmer, knows all of the tricks of the trade. The firm specializes in innovative immigration solutions, some of which you’ll get to hear about on this podcast. Tune in for commentary on immigration-related news and industry insights, and The Immigration Guy’s thoughts on much more!

If you're interested in talking with one of our Business Relationship Developers about solving your business labor needs, click the link and fill out your contact information. We will get back to you shortly!

Sign up for our free webinars using the links below:

Send an email to if you'd like to be featured in an episode, if you have a question Kyle can answer, or if you'd like to purchase an advertisement on the podcast.

Follow Kyle Farmer on LinkedIn, here.
Subscribe to our monthly Immigration Insider Newsletter, here.

**The information provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute legal advice; instead, all information, content, and materials available are for general informational purposes only. Listeners of this podcast should contact their attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular legal matter.  No reader, user, or browser of this site should act or refrain from acting on the basis of information on this site without first seeking legal advice from counsel in the relevant jurisdiction.  Only your individual attorney can provide assurances that the information contained herein – and your interpretation of it – is applicable or appropriate to your particular situation.  Use of, and access to, this podcast or any of the links or resources contained within the description do not create an attorney-client relationship between the listener and Kyle Farmer. **

Produced & Edited By: Drew Tattam

Welcome back to the Immigration Guy. Happy Wednesday. Last weekend we had an employee appreciation party, which was a lot of fun. We got to. Uh, appreciate all of our employees. We got to go to a pretty cool place locally called Treaty Oak, which is a distillery, and they have a restaurant. Pretty cool thing, even cooler than that.

I got to break in my berm last weekend, which was right after that. I went and shot guns and smoked cigars for several hours. So, uh, it was all in. A really, really awesome weekend and we're, we're off to a good week so far. Hey y'all. This is the Immigration Guy with Kyle Farmer, but we do have a, a topic, uh, to talk about today that. Kind of complicated, so bear with me a little bit, but it does have some pretty massive implications in, in agriculture as a whole. And so, I, let's dive into that a little bit. For H-2A visas, you can qualify for H-2A visas. And one of the requirements for that, uh, for qualifying for H-2A visas is to demonstrate that your job opportunity is, uh, agricultural in nature.

A lot of people think about agriculture, and they think, ah, that should be pretty easy to define. A lot of people have not talked to the Department of Labor because it's not all that easy to define, apparently. It, and that it, it just does get complicated into, in certain areas, you know, if something's happening on a farm, but it's not directly associated with that farm.

And is that considered agriculture? You know, like in, in Central Texas, one of the things that we have here is we've got a lot of agritourism, and so you'll have. That have a farm, they've got a vineyard and on there they also have wine tasting and a restaurant. Well, the vineyard part is agricultural. Um, but the separate independent business there, the restaurant is not agricultural, although they both happen on a farm. So, it, it's not always just, you know, it's not always just as easy as, oh, is that, is that that's agriculture for sure. Uh, and one thing in there is, so with agricultural construction, uh, this happens actually for a lot of different aspects of agriculture, but uh, particularly for agricultural construction, they've qualified for H-2A visas for a long time, uh, because they have been deemed to be within.

Uh, secondary definition of agriculture under the Fair Labor Standards Act. And so, the Fair Labor Standard Act, secondary definition of, uh, agriculture is just any practice performed by a farmer or on a farm as an instant tour in conjunction with the farming operations. And so, there's a really two elements that you look at there.

There's the element of is this work being performed by a farmer or on a farm. If you don't meet that first element, then you are. Considered SEC in secondary agriculture. So, we saw this kind of rear its ugly head. A few years ago, whenever some farm labor contractors were applying for, uh, trucking applications.

Basically, they were hauling agricultural commodities, but they were not the farmer, not the actual producer of. Those commodities. And so, it turns out that they were not actually performing agriculture cuz they're not the farmer cuz they're a farm labor contractor. So, they're a separate, you know, just a, just another business.

Uh, and they weren't working on a farm, they were just driving the commodities. And so, it got 'em outside of the secondary definition of agriculture. But then there's that other second element, which is a little bit more complicated, which is the work is incidental to, or in conjunction such farming operations.

And so historically, agricultural construction has been deemed to be falling under the secondary definition of agriculture because one, it's being performed on a farm. And then two, for example, the construction of a livestock confinement is incidental to the actual raising of the livestock, which is the farming operation.

And there's a case right now outta Wisconsin where the plaintiffs are contending that they were. Misclassified as agricultural workers and therefore entitled to overtime. This is also how they qualified for H-2A visas because they were under, uh, the secondary definition of agriculture, so qualified 'em for, for H-2A visas.

So, this is why it matters to a lot of people. But basically, what the plans were saying is, no, we weren't, this, this isn't work that's incidental to or in conjunction with the farming operations. Therefore, uh, I am. Falling under the secondary definition of agriculture. Therefore, I'm entitled to this overtime.

Well, that originally what happened with this case was the court dismissed the case. The district court dismissed this case on what's called a 12(b)(6) motion, which is just failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. So basically, all of the facts pled by the plaintiffs were. To demonstrate that as a matter of law, even if you take all of those facts to be true, that they did not.

Uh, or, or that they did fall under secondary definition of agriculture. Therefore, they're not entitled overtime. So basically, the district court dismissed this case. The plaintiffs then appealed this decision to the Seventh Circuit and then appealing it to the seventh circuit. Uh, the Seventh Circuit reviewed the case and they just said that the district court should not have dismissed that case on a 12(b)(6) motion, uh, because there's more fact-finding that needs to be had.

Before they make that determination. And so basically, the Seventh Circuit said, just because you're working on a farm which was agreed to by the plaintiffs and that you're building a livestock confinement doesn't necessarily mean that your work is agricultural in nature, because it doesn't necessarily mean that its sole to or in conjunction with the farming operation.

And so, this matters a lot because this is, uh, a case that could end up having a lot of implications on agricultural construction companies, obviously, uh, but a lot of other people that rely on the secondary definition of agriculture because in, in doing so, and in dismissing it, the Seventh Circuit also created through application of the regulatory interpretations. Uh, and then, and after reviewing it, I, I don't think it was, it was the, the proper application of those, but regardless, uh, they kind of created a, a difficult standard here. And so, it, it ends up mattering a lot because the. Uh, all of these construction companies that have been applying for and and getting H-2A visa workers for a really long time, they need to pay attention to this case.

Uh, it's also gonna have pretty big implications because if the district court, or, uh, if at the end of the day the plaintiffs were to prevail, it's gonna mobilize the the Department of Labor and, and then the plaintiff lawyers and worker advocacy groups, uh, to start going after these contractors for back wages for people that they've brought in under the H-2A visa program and performed agricultural construction with, it's kind of a, it's an interesting case and it's something to pay attention to.

I, I don't know that it's gonna have, many implications for a while, just because it takes a while to get through that case. And then that case will have to go all the way through discovery. And then, uh, hopefully there will be another ruling and, and hopefully in favor of the defendants on that case, uh, so that agricultural construction companies can continue to participate in the H-2A program.

It's kind of interesting though, because if you think about, all right, well, what are the options if. Agricultural construction workers and, and their, the companies are excluded from the H-2A Visa program. They would have to lean on the H-2B Visa program, which, you know, there's, there's definitely some pros and cons to that.

It, it's kind of, they're changing the H-2A or potentially changing the H-2A wage rate methodology next year for agricultural construction workers where they're gonna be looking at the statewide average of agricultural construction wages. To determine what the applicable wage rate is on each category.

And I think that that is just gonna be one of the biggest messes, uh, just because it just, it's it, the Department of Labor is leaving it up to the State Workforce Agency to apply, uh, the proper SOC classification or SOC code, which will dictate the wages of the workers. So basically, that the way that's gonna work is.

The State Workforce Agency's gonna look at the job duties, they're gonna find the SOC code, uh, which is just the classification of the workers and into what category of work they're performing. And they're gonna apply the highest of the applicable wage rates. And whenever they do that, uh, there's, I don't foresee a lot of consistency from state to state because I don't see a lot of consistency now. Whenever we file H-2A applications, a lot of times there's just complete inconsistency on the same job description in different states, get a different code, and if that happens next year and they adopt this rule, it's gonna make determining the wage rates.

Very, very difficult. And so that's actually kind of an advantage to H-2B is that you have to file a prevailing wage determination to determine what the proper wage rate is, uh, in the specific area, not the statewide average, but in the specific area for that specific type of work. And there's an actual process for it.

There's an appeal process for it. There's a sub... Submission for reconsideration process for it. Whereas if this Department of Labor wage rate rule goes through, there's not a appeal process. You would actually have to get the application to be denied and then appeal that to an administrative law judge for the administrative law judge to review it and see what the applicable code is.

So, I think that that's gonna be really difficult, especially in the first place I. I don't see how the Department of Labor's gonna properly do that, uh, with the State Workforce Agencies. Not that they want to try it, it's just I don't, I I think that there's gonna be a lot of inconsistency with the State Workforce Agencies.

So as a matter of practice, if you have prevailing wage determinations being filed, it's actually kind of nice because you have a little bit more. Uh, foreseeability factor there, but the big limit limiting variable with H-2B applications is there's a numerical cap on H-2B piece of filings, and so, there's 66,000 of 'em available over the course of the year without a cap increase.

Uh, they do cap increases almost every year, thankfully. But, uh, there's only 66,000 of 'em available and they're broken out based off of the government's fiscal year. So, 33,000 of 'em available for October 1st, 33,000 of 'em for April 1st and April 1st, which is when most of these ag construction companies would be applying.

They have, uh, a lot of competition for those visas. For example, last year, there was something like 130,000 visas applied for, for those 30,000 spots. So somewhere between 10, uh, 20 and 25% of the applications that were submitted for an April 1st start date actually yielded app, uh, workers for an April 1st start date.

And so, the unpredictability variable there makes it. Makes it tough. So, you know it for anything, any, any value that's that's received for going into the H-2B program. In terms of predictability of wages, it's kind of negated by unpredictability and in terms of when your workers will get there because.

They don't get there on April 1st. You gotta wait for a cap increase. If you wait for a cap increase, you're probably looking at getting workers in June or July, and then in June or July, the workers that you do get normally have to have had a visa, an H-2B Visa in the last three years. So, it could be an…

It, it could be difficult for those guys. So, it's, uh, definitely something to pay attention to and it's, it's kind of puts those companies in a, in a tough spot. So, I would, I would be keeping a close eye on that case and, and how it goes through the courts. I, we will definitely be keeping people up to date on that.

Uh, but the, the alternative there is H-2B says, and another big aspect of it is that would start making all those companies have to. Time and a half. Uh, but you know, there, there are definitely still some advantages to H-2B over H-2A. Like with H-2B, you're, you've got the predictability of wage rates, but you also have the ability to deduct the cost of housing from the workers' checks.

Whereas under the H-2A program, even if the wage rate methodology changes, they, uh, they, they don't account for that. So, you're, they would change the wage rates. Wage rates would go way up, particularly in ag construction. And then, uh, you'd. Paying for the workers housing and transportation and all that kind of stuff.

So, uh, yeah, just something, something to pay close attention to with H-2B filings. Uh, one important thing for people that file H-2A filings is if you are filing H-2B filings, just remember that the way that these applications are separated is H-2s per Ag, H-2Bs for non-ag. And if you're wanting to file H-2B applications for any non-ag.

You would want to start that application process sometime in September or October at the latest, because the first step in that application process is filing a prevailing wage determination in the area of intended employment. And right now, it's taken the government about 45 to 55 days to actually get back.

Uh, and you have to have that fi... Prior to filing the applications and you submit those total applications on January 1st to January 3rd, that's how you can hopefully get lucky and get in Group A cuz the way that the Department of Labor does that is they take all the applications that were filed between January 1st, January 3rd, put 'em in a big pot, and then randomly assign them groups A through G.

And so, with with those types of applications, you really, really want to get group A. So, you must submit by between January 1st and January 3rd, or else you pretty much will have no chance of, actually, you will have no chance of getting your workers on April 1st. So, if you, if it is something you're looking forward to and wanting to file some H-2B filings, you want to start working on that sooner than later for.

All right. Now, producer Drew is going to come in here and we're gonna play a new game that we are referring to as gut check, which is just my instant reactions to small words or phrases. Basically, I'm gonna give my opinion about a whole bunch of things, and it could be true, it could be not, but that's part of.

Drew, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Even though you always, I'm always here. Always here in the background. Normally just creeping. Yes. But now you're out in the public. This isn't the first time I'm out in the public though. That's true. And these are, these are all. words or phrases? You have not pre-screened these by me at all.

No. And none of them are immigration-related. But you should keep listening. No, you should. Oh no, you definitely wanna keep listening because we're the immigration stuff like that was okay. That was fun. But now this part's actually just gonna be for fun. Okay. So, we're gonna start with something easy, I think.

We're gonna go with Safari hunting. Nope, I don't have a passport. I'm not going anywhere. You can't safari hunt in Texas. Next question. No, no, no. The, so this is actually a really funny thing. For some reason people find it extremely ironic that I, as an immigration lawyer, don't have a passport. But I do find that to be the least ironic thing ever because my goal is not to have people just willy-nilly traveling internationally.

I like people to be here. I'm not trying to send anywhere, anywhere else, so I don't need a passport cause I'm not, so I don't have a passport. So going safari, hunting it, you know, if I could go safari hunting and not need a passport, I'd be all in, especially if I didn't have to go very far. But what would be your first choice of animal?

What would you be going after? All of it. What? What? Any of it. I don't care. Man, I don't know you. I, I don't, if, if I was going after, oh, like if I could just pick animal. To have an how cool would it be to have a hippo? That would be really cool. I want a hippopotamus for Christmas, but I don't wanna have to travel to Africa for it.

If you had one of those, like what material? Like resin where it was like fake water where you could put the out like underwater, that would be so awesome, and I would have its huge mouth open. Oh, no, no. This is what I would do. If I had a hippo. I would put it in about a hippo size. And shut the door and open its mouth wide open and then just tell people to go into that room so they get scared of them.

But that would be so funny. Would your kids be scared? Yeah, for sure. They'd walk in and be like, whoa, my God. Oh, that would be hilarious. That would be, how many times do you think you could like jump-scare them? Uh, my kids with room, my kids once, because when they realized it was, they would just go in there and play with it.

But I think that it would make it where I invited a lot more people to my house, if I had a hippo. Where I could scare them and a camera, obviously always watching that door. Yeah. And then maybe take a few pictures like fake riding the hippo. Yes. Absolutely. Like a pony ride. That could be our new Immigration Guy logo is a hippo cowboy.

Oh my God. You as a cowboy. Well, you are a cowboy. Uh, cartoon, Kyle cowboy, cartoon riding a hippo. Oh, still faceless, like bucking Bronco style. One hand on, one hand on. Uh, yeah, I like it. I, I think this is a really good idea. Okay, next one. Um, brussel sprouts. Yes, absolutely. Brussel sprouts. You don't come across as a vegetable guy.

I love vegetables, especially brussels sprouts. Brussels sprouts are so good, and you can cook 'em in any kind of vinegar. You can fry brussels sprouts. Yeah. What's your favorite brussels sprout preparation? Dude, I, we were, me and my wife on our honeymoon went to Jackson Hole, and I think that the entire city was just made of Brussels sprouts, cuz that's all I ate the whole time.

And they would cook it in all sorts of like teriyaki, which was. Oh, so good. Or balsamic with like goat cheese and bacon. Oh, you stick bacon with brussels sprouts, have you not? That's, oh, no, I have, that's a candied bacon. Yeah. Is, ugh. Yeah. No, so very, very in favor of brussels sprouts. Okay. I wouldn't, I wouldn't peg you as a a vegetable guy though.

I don't know. Tell you, he seemed like a meat and potatoes. Potatoes, vegetable. It's a star. A, a tuber?

I am a, I am definitely a meat guy, a tuber guy. One time I went to this restaurant, and it had it, it was a small menu, and it had a list of things and it said that you could have, uh, so there was, you know, they had like their, you know, their salad. They had this other thing, and then there, it's this line that just said proteins, and it said chicken steak.

uh, fit, uh, tuna and bacon wrap quail it said, and it said, and bacon wrap quail. And I said, I'll do that. I'll do the proteins. And then they said, no, that's supposed to go on something else. And I was like, then why'd you put and put, or, yeah, because otherwise everyone just thinks they're just picking. But then they ended up bringing me a plate, full protein.

That was probably my favorite meal ever. So, I am definitely a meat. Okay. That's what we, we assumed. All right. Um, we'll go into one more animal-related one. How do you feel about zoos? Zoos, yeah. Oh, man. So, zoos, this could be controversial. Be careful. I love. Zoos do actually, yes. Zoos. Have you ever been to a zoo?

I have, but when you think about it, it doesn't make you a little sad. No, I don't because they're animals and I'm a person and I am a person that likes to look at animals and you know what I do? Technically you're an animal also. How are you defining animal? Just like I have no idea how you're defining animal.

I define animal as a, uh, wordy. We're a mammal, right? Or a mammal. I don't know if that means an animal. I mean, sometimes I roar. What mammals do you know that aren't animals? Humans. I'm googling this cuz I don't have data to support me, but I know I'm right. All right. No, I, I'm sure that if you ask the Google, it'll tell you whatever you wanted to know, but I, I think that zoos are cool.

You got, you know, and this is kind of a cool thing, uh, and I guess that, yeah, if you think about it, like should that lion be in that? I don't know. Probably not. I don't like to think about it on that deep of a level. I like to think about it on the level of should I, as a person be able to go see a lion and not be murdered by that lion?

And I think the answer to that is abso-freaking-lutely. And I should be able to go there with my kids and say, hey kids, look, that's a lion. Now, if I'm thinking about from the lion's perspective, which I don't think about things a lot from lion's perspectives, but if I was, I probably would be sad. I was that lion.

but I'm not. So, it's tough. I don't know why that would be controversial though. Are there people that just don't like zoos? Oh, lots of people. Oh yeah. Yeah. You might get, get roasted for this. for liking zoos. What kind of people don't like zoos? You just don't like happiness. I guess if you're just sit, I mean, if you stare out at them, do they look happy?

Does that go gorilla? No, but if I look to my left and I see that kid, that kid sure looks happy until it's like the gorilla gets out and eats 'em. Oh, that's a great point. I am very against zoos that let their animals out. I don't think any of them are purposefully letting them out. Oh, okay. Okay. This is what “”

Oh, good. Now do we, do we trust? The Australians? Okay, go ahead. This is coming from an Australian, so from one Australian to another. Sh… Her Google is set up at “.aussie.” It's “.au.” Oh “google.aussie.” Okay. Humans are also classified within the subgroup of mammals called primates and the subgroup of primates called apes.

And in particular, we are the great apes. Okay. I agree with that. I think we are pretty great. But that doesn't answer the question. Just Google the, these words, what is an animal? But yeah, no, I think that we already agreed that we were mam. So, if we're a mammal and in the primate family, that's an animal.

Animal, a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system, and able to respond rapidly to stimuli, we are definitely animals. Yeah, wild. I told you, the more you learn, you know, you like something. Now I'm an animal, but I wouldn't want to be in a zoo.

Now I'm… Never mind. I'm against zoos now too. Mm-hmm, cancel the zoos. Zoos are officially canceled. You heard it here first. Okay. Ketchup or mustard? The answer to this, unless you're a complete sociopath, is ketchup. That's so obvious. I knew you were gonna say. Oh, because I'm not a sociopath, but I had to ask.

Well, so there are situations where I'll go with mustard, but that's only if I'm feeling crazy. What about a mustard on a French fry? You need to get out right now. Those are the only people I'm trying to send out of the country. See you like you, Drew. That's an Australian thing for sure. I don't know if it is, I just… No, what it is and I'll, I'll sound like a snob here.

Oh yeah. But I grew up to with tomato farmers, and ever since I was little, you walk out into a tomato field, you grab a tomato, and you eat it like an apple. Like tomatoes are so good. I agree with this. Ketchup tastes like vinegar and sugar. It doesn't taste like a tomato. You don't have to think about it, and it's just wrong.

Don't think about it as this is supposed to taste like a tomato. Think of it as this is supposed to taste delicious, and it does. It's not. You are. It's not though. Making me so mad right now, I dip my fries and mustard. I don't also dip my fries and barbecue sauce if I'm feeling like it. Oh dude. You know, uh, what about French fries or truffle fries?

Well, I mean, both are good. No, but you're not to go. But given the option of a truffle fry, that's where I'm going. Yeah, a hundred percent. No, I agree with that. And then you're not using either in a nice Dijon. No dipped in a holy, okay. That works too. Okay. Thank you. I'm good negotiation. I'm not a mayonnaise fan.

Me neither. But when it's, when it's marketed as aioli, I do like it. Well, it's a, it's aioli is mayonnaise that they make taste good. Yeah. And so, with flavors, yeah, I, I agree with you. I'm hoping you know who this is. Dave Ramsey. Dave, I'm very pro-Dave Ramsey. Seriously. Dave Ramsey. The Dave Ramsey. The, the, the one. The one and only Dave Ramsey.

No, Dave Ramsey's awesome. He's, uh, really, it, it, it, he has a, I think if everyone followed his financial advice, we'd probably be a lot better situations. No way. Of course, his beliefs on like, you shouldn't have debt, you should pay for things in cash. Yeah, I think that's, you're all for that responsible.

Yeah, definitely. Do you have a home loan? The home loan he doesn't consider as debt. Whenever he talks about he was being debt free. Home loans are, I don't believe included in that. Um, but he does say that that's the last debt that you should tackle. So, he's not against people getting mortgage. What about car loans?

Car loans. He doesn't want you getting car loans. So, do you have one? Nope. Said the liar. . . I was gonna say no, I, I said I like him, and I said that people would be in a lot better situation if they would follow his advice. I didn't say it. I'm not responsible. Look at going from the guy who has custom ice molds.

Okay. No, I have ice. and a stamp where, by which I can customize my eyes at home. You have one of those metal stamps? Yes. Those are so cool. I was watching a video on one the other day that's just like checker patterned, and they did all four sides of it. So cool. Right? It's the coolest thing. How does it melt ice fast?

I don't, how does it do it? I don't know, but I've known that that works for a long time because of my ring. I can use my Aggie ring to stamp stuff and I've done that since I've got my Aggie ring. And then I started doing that with our law firm logo on my eyes, and I started out not that great at it because I, is there a trick, like a method?

Yes. Yeah, there is. I haven't figured it out yet, but I imagine there has to be, but I, yep, yep. Nope. I've broke a, a whiskey glass or three with that thing. You've broken it. Yeah. Well, I tried it. I act whenever I first got it. I think you're supposed to do the ice before you put it in the glass. You're supposed to stamp it before you put it in the glass.

You are so much better at this than me, like on one of those rubber bar mats. God, I should have thought of that. All right. Well, not gonna go home. Just kidding. We don't do free advertising. Okay. Camping, uh, pro. Uh, yes, absolutely. I think that everyone should camp. Always. We need to do away with homes.

I'm gonna actually start a, a, a new movement here in the United States where we've already cancelled zoos. Mm-hmm. And now I'm canceling homes because we should be camping all the time. Homes deserve to be canceled the most. Yeah. Camping is pretty. We used to, I know you're gonna be deeply offended by this, so I'll just share.

We used to go camping all the time growing up, and my brother loved the tent. He set up his own tent. He's pretty tall, so he gets his own tent. My mom and I had like an SUV, and we'd fold down the back like two things of seats and then we got foam, like memory foam cut to fit the back of the car and like sleeping bags on it.

That memory foam camping in the back of your car. Yeah. Uh, so I'm not going to hate on you as much as you would think for that. But I, and that's just because I've been desensitized to it the other day. Someone said the word glamping to me. Mm-hmm, which I didn't know was a thing, but apparently, it's like you're camping but you're not camping at all, and you just have like a fancy camping set up basically.

It's kind of like just being in a hotel room in the woods and you should set up like an A glamping Airbnb on your property like far away where you would never see them. You make so much money? Uh, nope. Not doing that because it like build a yurt out there. What is a yurt? You've never heard of a yurt? No, but I'm, I feel like it's gonna be something as offensive to me as the word glamping.

We also went yurt camping, and it's like a type of tent that is, if a tint has running water. It's not, it's not a tint. It's not, it's not. It's just like a big, that's actually kind of baller looking. So, I would set that up on my property and not rent it out. and not rent it out. That's exactly right. I don't, I don't, I don't want people sleeping in my stuff.

Yeah, they're cool. They're just like big. No, that's cool. That's cool. Cylinders with a cone on top. That's cool. Google your, yeah. And no, I'm not, not mad at you and your mom about that. I appreciate y'all, uh, taking the effort to at least half-assed. So that's really, really great. And I, I think I probably would've made fun of you about that about a month ago.

But then someone introduced me to the clamping, the notion of glamping and having a word like glamp is something I'm just, I'm, I'm not in favor of that. I also, before I started working here for a month, went camping, like across the country and into Canada. Okay. You're in Canada at a certain point. Have you ever been to Banff?

Are you making up words? No. Have I ever been to Banff? Banff. It's a national park in Canada. Uh, I'm not going to say what I was gonna say because we love the Canadians. No, uh, because then you'd have to put another E for explicit next to my podcast again, all the like blue water pictures you see of Canada. Oh, that's Banff.

Now when you say Banff, what does that… Is that an abbreviation? Because I know that… No, that's B-A-M-F. Yes. This is B-A-N-F-F. Bamf versus Banff. Yeah. Okay. Well, and I'm against BAMF. With an m. Why are you against that? No, and at a certain point you just need a shower and a like a month of full-on camping is… Oh yeah.

No, no, no. I agree with you. Yeah. So, okay, never mind. We we're uncancelling homes. Okay. Cancel camping.

Like all those van people. Could you be a van person? Nope? Nope. Okay. Uncancel the homes. You heard it here? Yeah. First and second. I, you know what, I'm gonna go ahead and uncancel the zoos too, just cuz. I think back and I'm like, zoos are… So, all right. Everything's uncancelled so far? Okay. Tesla?

Yes. You're a Tesla guy? Yes. Are you kidding me? Teslas are awesome. I was says the guy with like a lifted, do you have a 350 or a 250? 350 lifted, 350. It's a leveled, it's not lifted. Okay. Yes. I won't make the joke that I was gonna do. I don't, um, you've heard anything about lifted trucks and foot size?

I, I've, I've heard it doesn't stop me. They and a jeep. Yeah. My, that is custom. Yes. Yes. And I also, and covered in mud because a 16-year-old? No, because I went to shoot guns as opposed to shooting bows. Oh, okay. And, uh, isn't that what you made fun of Edwin? For what? Shooting guns? No, it's the way Edwin said it.

Okay. But yeah, so I also am the same guy who right when they came or. Uh, offered the opportunity to put small amounts of money down on a Cybertruck that went straight in for it, so, oh, you did? Oh. The moment that Cybertruck comes out, it's yours. Oh, yeah. I'm gonna go pick up Elon, and we're gonna go hang out.

No. Am I Tesla? Dude, they are so cool. Have you driven one? Uh, no, but I wrote in my friend's Tesla the other day and he didn't let you drive it? I didn't ask. It's so fast. You should ask him. That's well, that's what was crazy is I was sitting there, and he just laid on it. Ugh. It is so crazy. Yeah. Is it just sits you back in your seat?

Y'all strike me as a Tesla guy either. What can I say? Pro Tesla, pro vegetables. Just normal guy. All the things. Just a normal guy that likes cool cars and good food and zoos. Okay. Are you a Peloton person? Absolutely not. I don't, I I really don't understand the whole Peloton thing. I see them and I think that's stupid, and then somehow those things are so expensive.

I'm like, why can you not go ride a real bike? What's wrong? also because what if you wanted to tippy tap on your computer while you were riding the bike? Do people do that? I, I don't know if that's okay. I'm almost a hundred percent sure that is not a Peloton feature, but if it was, I'm also against that working.

Well, how do, oh, this leads me, how do you feel about the people that have like the treadmills at their desk where they. Nope. Focus on. What are you doing? What are you doing? Also, this is the other thing is people wanna like half-ass exercise while they work, or they want to go like on a walk. Yeah. That's not the point of exercising.

There is an aspect to it where you do it to do things generally healthier, but there is a more com important component to exercise is struggle. You're supposed to do exercises that are so. That you can't focus on anything else because you're actually struggling. So fine. If you were to be the treadmill walker while I'm on my computer, all dilly daddying around, whatever, but your butt better be in a gym doing something hard cuz that's what gyms are actually for.

That's why you exercise. So, you need both. You need both. And if you're only the treadmill while you work walker, you're… In five minutes, he'll come back and change that. I can't wait to take a minute. Yeah, yeah. No, I, I I flip flop pretty quick; you don't know the benefits of walking? No. I, I know that there are benefits of walking, but I also know that if you are someone that's physically capable of doing an exercise, that's actually difficult, that you are withholding one of the primary benefits of exercise.

Mental struggle you need to become, is that the primary benefit? One of 'em, I said one of 'em. Okay. There's also the physical component to it, but you have to get like, and, and the that kind of thing also matters in other parts of your life because if you struggle and you get comfortable with struggle, it's just good for you.

It's generally. So then are you struggling still? If you're, if you're comfortable with it, yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, you're comfortable with the idea of struggling. You're not comfortable while you're doing it, it, but at the end of it, you're like, oh, that was good. And then you're still surviving. Then you go get on your little treadmill while you're tapping on your computer and that's fine, whatever.

But then if you go to the office and you get the person that's on their treadmill and they're like, oh my God, I don't need to go to the gym. I walk all day when I'm typing. I'm like, no. Well, I don't think they're like doing it to be like sweating. They're not power walking. Are they? Power walking? Have you seen Olympic power walking?

Yes, that's also canceled. The Olympics? No, no, no. Not the Olympics. Olympic power walking. No, no, no, sir. That's a good event. You need to slow down, you went from power-walking to breathe light jogging, and that is, no, they look like they're all light jogging. Yeah. No, I don't be. What's the diff like, how do you determine if somebody moves from a walk to a jog?

You cancel all. It's so stupid. How do you, no, how do you, I'm asking how do you know if somebody's fast walking or jogging? I guess how much they're bending their knees. I don't know. I don't Google it. Go to and say, what's the difference between fast walking and jogging? I don't know.

I'm gonna guess that there's something about your posture or your. Oh, it's speed.

You're power-walking too fast. That's officially a real jog. Okay, power walking now. This is Oh. So, you know it's true. Do we believe that power walking is usually considered from three to five miles per hour? Three to five miles per five miles per hour. Okay, but some power walkers reach speeds of seven to 10 miles per hour.

Now how are you still power-walking. What? What's light jog? What's light? Jog speed. Um, let's see. Light jog speed. Is anything over 12? No way could you do more than five miles an hour and still be… Wait five miles an hour. No, no. You could do it five miles an hour. You couldn't do this. Says

So, they're contradicting themselves. Ah, they're canceled. Write 'em a letter. One definition of jogging speed is four to six miles per hour. Four to six. Okay. I'm, I'm gonna type in a complaint email, but the same website says seven to 10. Man, some power walkers, Healthline. They've got some good, so ICO work going on though?

Cause they were your two top searches. Yeah. That's impressive. From a marketing standpoint, I didn't know what that meant before I started working here, but now ICO. Yeah. I don't know that. You just pay people to get your thing to the top. To get to the top, yeah. Yeah. Google is greedy. Well, Google doesn't get paid for it.

It's all these other vendors that get paid for it and then Google changes their algorithm. screws everyone. It's what they do. You sound like Kim Kardashian with the Instagram algorithm. Did she have a thing? Yeah, she allegedly, cuz I don't have social media, she allegedly canceled Instagram because they keep changing the algorithm and she's not a fan.

Classic Kim Kardashian. Yeah. Um, did you see that your boy Joe? Which boy? You know Joe Rogan? The Joe Joe Rogan? Yeah. Oh, okay. Was talking about Brittney Griner? No. Did you see his take on Brittney Griner? No. Did he also think that we should probably get a little bit more out of the deal, or did he think maybe taking drugs into Russia's bad idea?

He was talking more about the hypocrisy with Kamala Harris.

Uh, no, that's a good point too. That's a good point too. I, hey, if you're wanting to cut loo people loose for smoking weed. Okay. I don't care. But I do think that if we're trading criminals, we should probably get probably better deal. Yeah. We need, we need to get a little bit better deal. I mean, do we not have some Russian in jail for too many parking tickets that we could dish out?

Instead, we gotta go with the Angel of Death or whatever his name is for Brittney Grimer. Are you kidding me? That's crap. Get the parking ticket guy, the guy that parked right next to the fire hydrant every day or double parked in the parking lot. We want him out of the country. Anyways, the lady in our, in our office building, she might be rushing, but she's probably not in jail.

But I'm just saying like, if you're gonna, if you're going to get rid of people, get rid of the person that double. That person's terrible. Yeah, she has since, for the people that are listening, she has since corrected her actions. She has corrected her actions, and I did see that someone else, I hate to say this, someone else double parked the other day in our parking that works for you.

No, they don't. Are you sure? Yeah. Cuz Trevor's had to start taking an Uber. So, he's uh, and he's the only one. He, yes. I've got so many pictures of his terrible parking jobs. I think we're at time. How much time are...? A lot. Okay, well let's do one more cuz this is just fun. Okay. All right, la. Last one. Last one.

Oh, now there's pressure to like, have it be a good one. No, it doesn't have to be a good one, cuz you're gonna be able to chop 'em up and put 'em however you want. I don't really do that though. No. Okay. No. Um, okay. Okay. Last one. Perfect. Neighbors? Absolutely not neighbors. Neighbors. No one has ever a neighbor that they're little… I mean, so, well, I guess it depends like if you're a neighbor, like at my house, I live on seven acres and so my neighbor's not that close and he's a really good dude.

So, you do like neighbors, but I think it depends on how we define neighbors. You move that same guy within, within one a hundred feet, feet of my house, can't stand him, but how do you know that you like him? What? What's, what's he done for you? Oh, he's just, he's one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life.

Just an all-around, really great guy. Do you give him chicken eggs? I would give him a child if he asked for a child. You have a lot of those spare Yeah. To give out? No. Both of my neighbors on both sides are really, really nice guys. And you put those people any closer? They probably become less great guys because I probably get on their nerves more.

It's, it's more of a me-thing's a you-problem. It's a me-problem. Okay. Yeah. But, uh, absolutely not to neighbors. There's no doubt about that. What about you, you, you pro neighbor? I can't say I've ever made a friend with a neighbor, although growing up we did have neighbors. How close were they? Pretty close.

Like R… Oh, California pretty pretty close. Yeah. California neighbors. Um, we did have a neighbor who I could go over to the knock on their door at any time and ask for a Popsicle, and they would give me one. Yeah. I wanna know how much you pushed that. Did you ever try at 3:00 AM? No. What do you mean as a kid, you think my parents were letting me out at 3:00 AM? I don't know what your parents did.

I don't have any idea. I know that you're, that wasn't just like a vagrant. You brought rabbit feet into school. Okay… That's a story for another time. We can share rabbit stories later. Uh, that's fair. That's fair. I've got a good rabbit story too. Yeah, no, so they were pretty cool. They were weird. Yeah, no, because they were saying, hey little girl, come over here and take a popsicle from me.

But I always took it home. Like I wasn't, no, you weren't gonna go to their couch. Just, although it was like sometimes, they did have me walk through their house to get it instead of just delivering, oh yeah, come get a Popsicle from the basement. It was in the garage. Yeah, the garage, basement, in the cellar.

And I do remember sometimes stealing, like, I don't know if I should be in. That was probably good instincts. I did it anyway… Every morning. He was a retired mailman. Every morning he would come out and get the newspaper in a robe with nothing underneath the robe. How would you know that? Because we would see him.

Oh, walk to the end of the driveway, bend down to pick. And if you've ever worn a robe, you know, no matter how tight, tight you tie it, things are happening if you make any sudden movements. Oh. Oh gosh. He was, did he? I'm bending down to pick up a newspaper. I'm sorry. Sorry for the view. I think he thought like maybe nobody was around.

Nobody was watching and just over there, back when newspapers were a. And our, our newspaper person must not have been very good cuz they didn't like chuck it at their door. It was the end of the driveway. Like you had to, your newspaper person obviously was not a neighbor. No. Otherwise, they would've started.

So maybe I'm against neighbors. Yeah. They, they would've started throwing his newspaper in his kitchen to avoid that scene. We also had redwood trees in our front yard and the other neighbor was weird. And she used to dress up like Pocahontas and just like frolic around in our redwood trees and we'd always look out the window and be like, oh, there's Leah again.

Yeah. So, when next time you say Northern California, whenever you're correcting me, I'm just gonna say you had a Pocahontas neighbor, but we also had redwood trees in her front yard. So, what, you're telling me you probably did now they were all fire. Your kids caught on fire. Never dressed up like Pocahontas.

My kids have never, are you kidding me? Oh, would they be canceled? Is that not allowed right now? Kids so fast nowadays, you can't dress up like Pocahontas. She just had the cute little leather, not leather, but you know, she was a kid. It was probably fake. Yeah. Dress. All right, you gonna wrap it up? What did I say to wrap things?

Um, thank you. We love you. Sayonara. All right. Thanks for the wrap up, Drew. Whisper. Thanks for listening to the Immigration Guide Podcast. Thank y'all for listening to the Immigration Guide Podcast. We really appreciate it. You could find us on our website, go to You can find me on LinkedIn and just search at Kyle Farmer, FLPC. Uh, you can find our law firm on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube. All you have to do is search for at Farmer Law PC. Go ahead and subscribe to download all the episodes of our podcast. You can download 'em and listen to 'em whenever and wherever you want. Uh, we'll be releasing new episodes every Wednesday on Spotify, Apple Music, Stitcher, which is apparently a real thing.

Amazon Music, Google, and wherever else you get your podcast. This is not legal advice, so any information that you get from this podcast should not be taken as such, if you are looking for legal advice, you should consult with a competent attorney for advice regarding your individual situation. Uh, if you wanna schedule a consultation, just go ahead and use the link in the description of this episode.

Thank you.