The H-2B program is difficult due to the small number of applications that are approved. This is our open letter to Congress about what could be changed to make a positive impact on the labor market and the non-immigrant visa programs.
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Produced & Edited By: Drew Tattam
Welcome back to the Immigration Guy Podcast. Happy freaking Wednesday. So, this weekend I'm thinking about going hog hunting. Pretty excited about this because this time of year, they mainly come out at night. So, what I gotta do is I gotta strap on my night vision goggles with my helmet like a Navy seal and go after those little bastards at about 12 o'clock at night.
So that should be a lot of fun. I've got a gun. It's a 300 blackout. It has a suppressor. and I have subsonic rounds, so whenever you shoot it, all you hear is the action of the gun. It is like, I'm so excited to treat those pigs like terrorists, are you allowed to say that?
Hey y'all, this is the Immigration Guy with Kyle Farmer, so on the Immigration Guy. We have none other than the Trey Garza. Am I supposed to say people's last names? Yes, I said Susan's last name. Everyone's gonna know y'all's names and social security numbers. Trey has filed an ungodly number of H-2B applications. He is what I like to call the H-2B Prince because I'm obviously the H-2B King, which makes him my son an H-2B.
So welcome, Trey. Thank you, Kyle. I'm so, so good to have you. I appreciate that, that introduction as the H-2B Prince. Yeah. Yeah. No, I like to call you the H-2B Prince. This is usually not your face. This is the first time you actually call me H-2B Prince. So, to your face. This is the first time I'm hearing this.
I tell the homeless people that around the corner all the time. Oh, have you met Trey? He's the really pretty kid. That is the H-2B Prince. They know. Oh, we do have a question for you. Sure. Do you still have the headlines? Because I need to ask him a headline question. Are you familiar with the Brittney?
Griner, is that how you say her name? I think so. S- saga? No, I, I need, I need to, she was arrested in Russia for alleged possession of a weed pin. Now I don't, I don't know if she actually had the weed pin or if the president of Russia just wanted to be Putin her in jail. But that's what. So now it's a big rodeo.
And so now we are in a predicament. Why is it a predicament? Because we need to get her back. Ah, because she's one of us. So, what we have here is we have an offer, an offer on the table to trade a Russian arms dealer, a convicted Russian arms dealer for Brittney, what do you think about that? It's all the context.
You're getting. I need more context. Okay. So, she has a weed pin allegedly. Right. But I don't trust the, the Russian judicial system. Obviously, we have their arms Dealer convicted. Arms dealer. Drew, will you pull up, uh, what his nickname is? Because I think that's probably the only other context I want to give.
But anyways, just so we're, we're doing a swap is what they're requesting. Initial thoughts. Yeah. What do you think about that? Swap? We're doing a swap. You know, there's really not much to discuss other than we need to get her back. That's what you think. We just, we, we have to do it. I, so I think that's a but there's gotta be a different way.
We're not, we're not trading that. That's like apples to orange. I'm like, no, that's, that was the point I was about to make is I feel. We, uh, we are not doing ourselves justice here. Uh, but the deal was sweetened this week. Okay. This week they counter offered, and they also offered us the opportunity to get Brittney back.
And one other guy, I can't remember who it was, but I know he was not a murderer for a Russian arms dealer and a convicted Russian murderer. And the Oh, yes. And just so we're clear, the Russian arms dealer, his nickname is The Merchant of Death. Oh gosh. But Brittney Griner, she's a damn good basketball player.
That's what I wanted to know. Okay, so the, the other person is, uh, former Marine Paul. Well, Wellman well and well, and I don't know what Paul allegedly did, but again, so we have Paul and that. Uh, that other guy that's basically an assassin. Yeah. Yeah. But I wanna know what he did allegedly, because maybe we're getting, maybe Paul is the reason this gets evened out, I don't know.
But all I know is if they're getting a convicted murderer and a convicted arms dealer with a nickname of Merchant of Death, I feel like we probably need to step up our game a little bit. I think that the sounds like we're playing it soft. I think we're playing it pretty soft. Yeah, I absolutely do. Oh God, this is part of the fun, Trey.
Okay. We don't actually only talk about H-2B. You're the H-2B Prince, but also. The prints of responding to headlines. So, gosh, is this a scroll situation? No, just I have a strict rule where I don't swipe on people's pictures. Yeah, because I'm worried. Okay.
Giggles. All right. This is a very fun one. So basically, Tom Brady is saying, being rich is the hardest. about parenting. Can you elaborate on that? Oh, at, so first of all, Tom Brady is probably one of the wisest people. He's godly. He is, I don't, I don't know if you know this, but he's a really good football player.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. But he, so I'm gonna try to guess where he's coming from this because, whenever you are rich, I would imagine. Uh, this is, Warren Buffett's talked about this, uh, one thing that Warren Buffett said about parenting whenever you're rich is that you want to give your kids enough to do anything right, but not so much to do nothing.
Right? And I would assume that that's what he's balancing right there. Unlike Warren Buffett. Tom Brady's also a handsome guy. Are they young? They're pretty young, aren't they? They're kids. Yeah, there was a funny thing in the, in the news, I think it was like two years ago when he won the Super Bowl. I don't know, he won the Super Bowl all the time, but I remember people were like, man, that was so weird cuz he kissed his like nine-year-old son on the lips,
And I was like, like, I remember that. And I was like, I's probably, I don't know, man. Like there's probably nothing weird about, I mean, there's nothing weird about it, I suppose, until he has mustache hair. When he has mustache hair. I don't know. I know if my dad tried to kiss me on the lips that that's not happening.
Oh my God. Here's a new one. And the there it is. Yes. Yes. Tom Brady kisses his father on the lips. Oh. But I mean, like I was saying a minute ago, Tom Brady is an awfully handsome man, so who could blame his. You know, and it has, where's he from? Where did he, where's Tom Brady from? It has to be some kind of culture.
No, he's is Tom, I think Tom Brady's from California. Hmm. Okay. All right. I think, is he from California? Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Where's that? Southern California? I don't know a lot about California's geography. I'm just asking. Geez. Yeah, no, I, that none of that happened on my side growing up. Mm-hmm.
So northern ca. Oh, cool. All right. San Mateo is in Northern California now. I know my, uh, California geography. Okay. All right. So that's not a thing in, uh, Eagle, past six. Yeah. There's no, there's no kissing of the lips between father and son. Uh, you know, once, uh, your dad will give you his name, but not his lips.
That's probably about the last thing here. Here too. So, uh, alright. Let's talk a little bit about H-2B ray. Uh, what do you think is the biggest issue with the H-2B program? Well, just like anyone who knows about the H-2B program or who should know, to me it's really just the fact that it's numerically capped.
Yep. Meaning they only issue so many every year and thousands upon thousands of employers, companies always. and it's just like you literally have minimal chances of getting workers under the program if you submit just an application. It's, you're kind of, it's just a lottery system and that's the, that's the worst part about it.
Cuz not a lot of people get to utilize it. Yeah, that's, that's my biggest problem with it too. I mean, obviously, and then it's just getting more and more competitive. It, it, it, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Why don't you, why don't you tell people how the, the lottery system works. So, if I'm filing for an April 1st start date, how does the beginning of that process work after the prevailing wage determination?
We'll skip that part. Well, to me it's the fact that if you're applying for an April 1st start date, you gotta start thinking about this, you know, six months before. So, October at least. Yeah, maybe. So around October you gotta start thinking. You know the application process because it takes a while. So how you were saying the prevailing wage, you wanna start doing that on October and then filing your application is, it's 90 days before April 1st, so you wanna submit your application January 1st, and there's a filing window.
So, what that means is the government basically knows, or the Department of Labor knows that. Shit ton of people applying. So, they say, hey, you have a filing window from January 1st to January 3rd. Or sometimes they'll change it, but they have a three-day window to apply and basically get put in a lottery system.
And that lottery system, it's randomized, it's. I'm assuming it's computer-based, it's systemized and you just, I'm gonna guess it's the Department of Labor, so they probably put a whole bunch of names and a huge hat somewhere in Chicago. And then just dive in. Yeah, exactly. And all they do is just; they just group you between Groups A and all the way through Group G is what we saw.
And Group A, it's, there's 33,000 spots available. Group A alone is, they reserve 35,000 spots in Group A. Yeah. So basically, people who get Group A aren't even, don't even have a possible, they have a chance of not getting the workers. Yeah. And then anything after that, You're, you're basically not getting them.
Yeah. I think there's like extremely limited circumstances where you could get very, very lucky in Group B. Mm-hmm. But you're talking about very minimal circumstances, and you basically have to hope that a few thousand people in Group a get screwed. Because I, I remember this last filing season, we had Group A filings, but then we did end up.
A couple responses to Group B filings prior to Group A filings. And I would assume that that's because the way the Department of Labor does it, I, I, I would guess that they assign 'em to different certifying officers and different analysts and those analysts go through their stack and then all of their A stack and then their B stack.
And some analysts are a little bit faster than another analysts. That'd be my guess, but yeah. And even at that point, you're still at the end of the line. Mm-hmm. And you're probably not getting people, I mean, I don't think we saw any one in Group B get people except for the cap. Right. I think it was all Group A if it was a cap-subject application.
Exactly, and and even then, people that got Group A and got selected and processed and got approved to get their visas even after the fact, it took a long time for them to get their workers, yeah. To go through the US Embassy. Schedule consulate times and it, it just, it was, it's just around that timeframe to me is what it sounds like.
It's just because you're, you're kind of going through the conflict of H-2A and H-2B trying to get processed at the same time, so it just, you know, delays a process more than in you would like. So, there's, it's a nightmare. And I guess my question to you about this is what would be the. Situation. If you could tell the government or the Department of Labor or Department of Homeland Security, say, hey, you know, pull your head outta your ass.
If they said, hey, Kyle, could, if you could recommend one piece of advice for us, just one regard in regarding the H-2B program, what would it be? As it stands now? As it stands now? Oh, if I could give 'em one piece of advice, I think I should give it to you. Pull you outta ass. Okay. No, they have, I would say you need to hire more analysts during that time of year, because what we saw this year is, we saw applications that were submitted between January 1st and January 3rd, not have any movement until May.
Now, just to reiterate, the start date on those applications was April 1st. So, the Department of Labor had so few analysts to get through these applications that they weren't even able to touch them. 45 days after the start date of the application. So that would be my, my one piece of advice. Now, if I were giving Congress one piece of advice, it would still be take your head outta your ass.
That's just, I think generally that's pretty good advice for anyone. But for the department or for the for Congress. If I were talking to Congress about how to reform H-2B and make it usable for people, there's two things that I would do. One, I would say take away the numerical cap. Provide certain exemptions for year-round work where we desperately need non-immigrants.
Examples of that would be like meat processing. A lot of meat processing is not seasonal, so there's no peak load need, no intermittent need, no one-time occurrence need, and so sometimes they're just kicked out of the program. Now a lot of meat processors do have some sort of fluctuation so you can demonstrate it, but a lot of 'em don't.
And. To me, these are kind of, they fall in the same group because the rationale behind the numerical cap and the rationale behind not allowing companies like that to fill their need was that you're concerned about the implications on the domestic workforce. And so you can avoid issues with that through the application process, which is what you already do during the application process.
You are required to demonstrate that you hired any able, willing, and qualified US applicants. If you don't, there's significant consequences for it. And so you have to post your job, advertise it to the public, make all the terms and conditions public. And so, yeah, you know, and I, I would say do those two things and if Congress comes back to you and say, yeah, but.
Employers would never actually do that. I would say, okay, then why don't you enforce the regulations more? If you want to be sure that people aren't gonna adversely affect the US workforce, and that's something you're worried about, put some funding towards investigations to ensure that that's the case and that's fine.
But leaving people out of the program on a numerical cap basis or. Because their work doesn't fall into one of these four needs, which were seasonal, peak load, intermittent, one-time occurrence. That only hurts us. That only hurts the employers. That only hurts our country because it puts an artificial restraint on labor that doesn't need to be there.
And so that, that would be my general advice to Congress. I also don't like the idea or just, you know, speaking to, two other companies, when they're utilizing the H-2B program, they're just like, hey, like, yeah, I got selected this year in 2019. Yes. Or, OR, but then the next year, I don't know if I'm gonna have 'em, so I can't confidently bid on work.
or get a, a good order or forecast prepared for the following year because I don't know if I'm getting my workers. Yep. And so, I think that that's one of the biggest issues with the numerical cap is whenever people are excluded, what it does to the companies is it makes the H-2B program almost unusable because, I mean, it's, it's still usable.
And so there, there are good ways to use the HGB program, it does make it relatively unusable because at least early on in the year mm-hmm, because those work, those employers, those companies don't know if they're gonna have their workers. So how are you, if you're a construction company and you're bidding on work for the following year and you know that work really starts picking up in April, how can you confidently tell your customer, I'm gonna be able to perform that work if you can't confide.
No, you're gonna get your workers. Absolutely. Yeah. You can't confidently do that. Yeah. That is one of the parts that makes it extremely frustrating. It's also they established this cap a long time ago. I don't know. Oh, geez. I don't know. 1980 something. I don't know. I don't know why that's coming. Way before I was doing this and, uh, they, this cap was established with what they thought the need was then.
But what you see now every single year is a massive cap increase, which is great. I do, I do think it's great that Congress is doing that, that, and that's, that's awesome. They get to do that through the budget bill. Right. Uh, I do think that DHS could issue those visas a heck of a lot faster. Uh, but they couldn't this year because Department of Labor was still processing applications in freaking May, and so it didn't, it didn't work out that way.
But if you know you're gonna have to be increasing the number of visas available every year, then I don't understand why you don't just pass a bill to permanently increase the, the cap count. Well, I guess I do understand it's because our politicians hate working together and any. So, if, if Republicans push that Democrats would push amnesty and then Republicans would say, no, I don't want amnesty, Democrats would say, well, a lot of Democrats would say not all Democrats.
And some Republicans actually, uh, would say, well then, I don't want to help H-2B because there's a lot of Republicans that don't, like H-2B just happens to be more Democrats that don't like H-2B. So, there's just people not agreeing with each other up there, and that's why there hasn't been change, or at least to, to an extent where it's.
Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of stupid people. The people. Don't like H-2B, a lot of times don't like it cuz they don't understand it. Yeah. And they, they don't take the initiative to understand it. Which, you know, I guess if you want to play devil's advocate here, and if I'm a politician and I'm being held to the standard of I need to know everything about everything, that's not really practical I suppose.
And so maybe that's holding 'em to too high a standard. Especially because I don't know if you've ever seen our politicians, but they don't exactly. come off all that bright or young. I've never seen such an old group of people. It's, it's so amazing. It's, it's like a, it's like a constant senior citizen parade.
I had an internship a couple years ago back in college, and it was during some kind of, basically they were doing a full-fledged, um, what's the word called? Where they're just having, I don't have no idea. It was ton a shit, ton of meetings when, when they're, when they're passing bills, passing laws. When they're in session, that's what it is.
Yeah. Yeah. When they're in session and the entire time, from my experience when I was in there, I I, it was just like unpaid internship. I go in there and my job, just to kind of let you know, what I had to do is I was in there. I had to basically create Facebook pages for the Congress guy, congressmen.
things that were relative to his particular area that he, he created. And then all I had to do was create Facebook pages, have people in his com in that certain community, follow that page, and then add that page as a friend for him. So, he just had fake friends fake pages created to, for the purpose of just publicity.
I don't know what, you know, how did that conversation go? Did it start off with like, hey, you look young, can you go ahead and make me a Facebook page and make me a whole bunch of fake, fake stuff put on that Facebook page. That's, that's basically how it went. I'm just like, okay. All right. And so, I lasted two days there.
Wow. That's pretty good. Yeah. I was surprised. It was unpaid. It was unpaid. I was just like, why am I doing this? This isn't, this isn't, this doesn't make any sense to me. His whole time there, the main thing that, that they were focused is just pleasing the people that were, uh, you know, donating to him. So yeah, whatever, whatever they wanted, he would just kind of make it happen.
Yeah. Uh, but obviously, you know, I'm sure there's, there's no, the only, the only concerns that they have on their agenda is for that specific reason. So, um, it's just a matter of who, who you're, who you're connected with up there in Congress and how enticing you are to them. Yeah. And you get that way with money.
I mean, they, I do think that that would be a really nice thing if they would reform to take a lot of the corruption out of political don. I mean, there's, there's so much that's so corrupt about political dominations one, the one thing that I, I don't like, and I think that this is just so ridiculous. So, we're in Texas.
I think it would be great if our especially our state representatives that have no impact on the federal level. So, let's talk like our governor's race. Sure. If they only derived their money from in-state donors, because I don't understand why we would have out-of-state. Interest trying to influence our in-state politics.
That's the exact purpose of having them separated is because us living in Texas, we want to be governed by other people living in Texas because they have to suffer the consequences in Texas for the decisions that they make. And so, and plus them being so close to the voter in theory, would make them more familiar with what we want.
But if you have out-of-state influence, Pumping money towards our in-state elected representatives to then drive narratives, drive conversations, and drive influence down from politician to voter. That kind of defeats the purpose. That's actually the first time I'm hearing that, and that makes a lot of sense.
Uh, it it, I'm just like, yeah, if you're trying to influence, it doesn't matter. I guess it doesn't matter if it's cross straight state lines, you No. You can get in there, participate in it and, and have your ways passed on to different states. I mean yeah. You know, you donate to them at, but your your idea of, hey, it should stay in state because those are the people that are actually gonna be impacted by the decisions and laws that you pass.
That, that, that makes total logical sense. Yeah. I wonder if that's something we can Google. Can you, can you see if you can pull. What percent of she can do it. What, what percent of donations for our governor's race? So, uh, Beto and Abbott came from in-state versus out-of-state donors because I don't actually know that.
I don't know. I mean, for, for all I know they may not get a lot of donations from out-of-state, but I would suspect that they do because there's gonna be a lot of people outside that would, I would think, that would donate to Abbott because it's so energy friendly. And so, for increasing energy production, and then for, for Beto, I'm sure that he has a lot of out to say donors too because a lot of people with an interest in Texas turning a little bit more purple.
Dang. Drew? Drew is like, to me, what Jamie is to Joe Rogan. That is, and that would make me, Joe Rogan Nice. Except for I've got better hair. Okay. So be. O' has raised 40.9 million. He has spent 15.9 million. He has 23.9 million cash on hand. Greg Abbott has raised a total of 37 million, so a little, little bit less than Beto, not a lot less, uh, but he's spent 52.2 million.
I guess, I don't know what the duration of that is. Abbott's been in office for a long time, so that's not, that's surprising, I suppose. And then he has 45.7 million cash on hand. Holy crap. Okay, listen to this. How many donations came from within Texas? Oh, this is a greater percentage of Greg Abbott's total amount raised.
So, this is, uh, based on dollar figure, not number of of voters. Okay. So, the amount of basically donations, they've driven 83% of those from Greg Abbott. Is that from? That's from instate, right? Yeah. Within Texas. Yeah. Yeah. So, 83% of Abbott's have come from, in Texas, 17% from outta Texas. So, 17% of his, uh, 37 million, I don't know what that is.
Beto O'Rourke, 60% of his has come from, in Texas, 40% of the 40 million he's raised. 41 million has come from out of the state of Texas. Yeah. This is also interesting. It's a lot of, it's a lot of small donors. How many of those are small donors? 48, which is defined as $200 or less. Beto O'Rourke, 48% of his are small donors, so just a whole bunch of small donations.
Greg Abbott's only 16%. So, Greg Abbott has a, the, the money behind him is just a, a fewer donors, lot of big do bigger dollars. Mm-hmm. Beta O'Rourke, more donors, smaller dollars, but that means that he has a lot of what are probably just voters from other. sending money to him, hoping to. Texas politics. Yeah.
Greg Abbott. I'm thinking likely I, I guess I don't know what his would be, but I would assume that his would be large donations from out-of-state attempting to influence state politics. Uh, so here are the biggest donors by candidate and the amount they were donated. Midland Energy President, he donated a million dollars, uh, Falcon Bay Energy.
Oh yeah. So, it was Energy Companies donated 680,000. So those are, and then, third biggest, I'm just gonna go down three of 'em cuz they kind of die off there in terms of dollar value, well Greg Abbott has quite a few $500,000 ones, but uh, then he is got a several $500,000 ones Mount Vernon Investments, Hillwood Development Corp.
Williams Brothers Construction, Landry's, restaurants executive. I don't know what most of these are. Okay, Beto, Cal Matters, co-founder and former Sutter Hill Ventures director. I don't know what that is. I'm gonna have to Google this person. The second one is George Soros. I don't know if you know who George Soros is.
I don’t. You know who George Soros is? Y'all don't know who George Soros is? Yeah. Seriously? No, no, no. All right, then Nancy Sanders not, oh, but listen to this, this Cal Matters co-founder. I don't, we need to find out what Cal Matters is. But these people donated Beto, 2 million George Soros vote donated them a million.
Let's see what Cal Matters is. Let's see here. California politics. California politics are the ones donating to get Beto elected. How obnoxious is George Soros? Uh, he's a, well, let's see where he's from. He's a, he's a businessman investor, uh, a Hungarian. American businessman. I don't know where he lives though.
So, he is from New York. So, we've got New York and California contributing significant dollars. To Beto and then I, I, all of these big dollar ones from Abbott are within Texas. I would find that equally annoying if it was, I don't know, some Oklahoma person. Trying to donate huge money to Greg Abbott because the, the idea of, or like, or someone from West Virginia, some West Virginia coal farmer, I don't know what you do in West Virginia, like moonshine and coal I think are the two things you're do in West Virginia.
Bluegrass music, where it's donating to Texas politics. To in influence how, how we vote. I think that that's just a ridiculous idea, interesting perspective that I did not realize before. So yeah, there's, there's a lot more we can go into with political donations, but instead of doing that, how do we want to end this thing?
Drew? Well, here we can wrap this up by just. You know, despite the H-2B program being complicated and stuff, who would be the three top industries or, or companies that could utilize the HGB program that actually best fit the, that particular situation, like top three, construction, landscaping, and resort and resorts?
Uh, because resorts oftentimes are really seasonal and, and that could vary. Like if you're a, a ski resort, obviously you're heavy during the winter. If you're a golf resort, depending on where you are, you might be heavy in the winter. Might be heavy in the summer, but either way, you're gonna have some significant fluctuations.
Uh, so I would say golf and ski resorts and then, uh, construction and landscaping and, and they, they can leverage it to, to make it worthwhile. No, I agree. I I definitely think, uh, based on our experience and the H-2B applications, a good majority of landscapers do apply for the HDB visas and, and it's, it's a perfect, perfect situation to kind of fit you into that program.
So, uh, I would honestly, encourage any landscaping, construction companies to, to explore that opportunity further to see how Palmer law can, can, uh, help you out. Cause uh, and they can just call us and reach the H-2B prints. He, he's, he's ready to go. You call, you call our number, and you just say, hey, I'd like to speak to the H-2B print.
They know exactly who to send. Helen is going to hate sending you those calls. So yeah, don't be afraid. Give us a call and, and, uh, the H-2B principal will definitely help you out. Oh, yeah, I know. He can help you out. All right, well, thanks everyone. We'll talk to y'all next time on the Immigration Guy. Thank y'all for listening to the Immigration Guy Podcast.
We really appreciate it. You can find us on our website. Go to www.farmerlawpc.com. You can find me on LinkedIn and Twitter. Just search at Kyle Farmer, FLPC. Uh, you can find our law firm on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube. All you have to do is search for at Farmer Law PC. Go ahead and subscribe to download all the episodes of our podcast.
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